CO129-249 - Governor Des Voeus Acting Governor Barker - 1891 [1-5] — Page 363

CO129 Colonial Office Hong Kong Records 理藩院香港檔案 All AI Reviewed

But the real purport of that despatch was to make a demand for a further contribution on the ground, that circumstances rendered it necessary to increase the garrison here.

This is clearly shown in the first paragraph, where your Lordship addresses us on the subject of the additional garrison required by the fortifications recently erected at Hongkong and their armament.

Again in paragraph 7 Your Lordship says, "The cost of this garrison (the future garrison) will be about £280,000 a year and will consequently be nearly three times as great as was the expense of the garrison in 1863 when the Colonial contribution was fixed."

In paragraph 19 your Lordship remarks "that the £40,000 which the Colony will pay in each of the next three years is only one-seventh of the garrison, while the remaining six-sevenths, £240,000, will still be borne by the mother country."

Could anything be plainer, more particularly from this last mentioned paragraph, than that the Imperial Government intimated that they intended during these three years to expend £280,000 per annum on an increased garrison out of which they requested the Colony to contribute £40,000?

But now the War Office takes a different line. The letter of the 14th of July insinuates that the increased contribution is not asked for so much because we are to have an increased garrison, but because the Colony's revenue has considerably augmented since the year 1863, and because an intention, then announced, to increase the Military Contribution at the end of five years was never carried out.

Those might have been very good reasons for requesting the Colony to increase its contribution, and had they been straightforwardly and undisguisedly submitted to the Legislature I doubt not that the Unofficial Members would have given them that impartial consideration which they are at all times prepared to give to proposals emanating from Her Majesty's Government.

But these were not the grounds upon which the Council were asked to vote the additional money. The real reason was, and there can be no attempt to disguise it, that the garrison would be increased during the three years particularly referred to, whereas there seems to be little chance of any substantial increase this year or indeed within any limited period.

This despatch has been acknowledged but it has not been answered. The Colonial Office has evidently knuckled under to the War Office and ceased to support our just cause. Lord Knutsford appears to have forgotten and to have abandoned what His Lordship termed our reasonable claim, and requests this Government to vote the increased contribution well knowing that no addition has been made to, and that no increased expenditure has been incurred on, the garrison.

Possibly the Government could not carry this vote if all the official members vote in accordance with their convictions on this subject; the officials have, however, been reticent as to what their views are; but whatever their opinions may be they are allowed no choice in the matter and will be required to vote as Government directs them.

If the Government press this question and take the extra £20,000 from the colony by means of the more numerous official vote, I think the position of matters may become so serious and so grave as to render it advisable for the unofficial members to take into their serious consideration the utility and propriety of their continued presence here where their votes, their opinions, and their resolutions are so completely disregarded and over-ridden, and to compel them to submit to Her Majesty the Queen by petition a statement of their reasons for contemplating such a course of action.

I submit this would be the only effective protest to be made to the arbitrary policy of the Home Government and its decision to impose a fresh burden of £20,000 a year on the ratepayers of the Colony without any quid pro quo and without giving them or their representatives an opportunity of discussing the new position and the new grounds taken up by the Right Honourable the Secretary of State.

The proceedings of the Imperial Government on this question are not characterised by reason or equity. I submit they are arbitrary and unjust. In my opinion they are calculated to imperil good government and must tend to weaken and impair the allegiance and alienate the goodwill towards the mother country of one of the most loyal of Her Majesty's Colonies.

There is a distinct breach of faith on the part of the War Office, and a glaring violation by the Imperial Government of a solemn agreement of its own framing and deliberately entered into.

It might be well for Her Majesty's advisers to bear in mind that, as stated in the Singapore Council the other day, loyalty is a hardy plant that requires a fair field and no favour, and that under injustice loyalty withers.

Against such unconstitutional doings and such a serious injustice to the taxpayers of Hongkong as is now contemplated I most earnestly and most emphatically protest.

HIS EXCELLENCY—I have listened very carefully to what has been said by hon. members and I venture to think that the point made by Hon. P. Ryrie is the only important one made, namely, that of the question of the stoppage of public works.

Of course we do not know what the meaning of the telegram received is, but if that telegram means that this military contribution is really going to prevent us from carrying out much-needed public works without a serious addition to our taxation, I must say that the point is a serious one.

But we do not know that at present. It may be that other public works are considered of greater importance than those that we have passed. It may be it is thought well not to proceed until we have taken some financial assistance from a loan such as we were well entitled, according to all ordinary principles, to have raised on the Tytan Water Works and reproductive works of that nature.

But of course if it means what Mr. Ryrie imagines then I should say his point has some considerable force.

I have also listened with great attention to the heroics indulged in so largely by the hon. member who last spoke, but I am bound to say that I think the whole is beside the point.

He says that hon. members have had no opportunity of discussing the intrinsic justice of this vote apart from the promise apparently made and unfulfilled. I say they have had that opportunity.

It was a most unfortunate promise to make in the first instance but, as he very justly remarked, the ground has been entirely shifted. The increased contribution is now claimed on the ground that we are only asked to pay what we should pay; the other is entirely left out.

I say there has been full opportunity both on this and the last occasion of discussing that point. It has been most distinctly brought before the Council, and to say that there has been no opportunity for discussing it is to say what is not a fact.

There has been abundant opportunity for discussing the question entirely apart from the unfortunate despatch which originally recommended this vote, the unfortunate nature of which nobody acknowledges more fully than I do.

It is because I consider that the demand is a just one entirely apart from that that I can conscientiously recommend this vote to the Legislature and do recommend it.

I could only have wished that members would have touched on the question which was deliberately put forward at the last meeting but which has not been touched upon, namely, supposing the demand had been made, as Mr. Fleming suggests, without the promise of additional troops, would it have been just?

If you are prepared to say it would have been just, then the promise however unfortunate has nothing to do with the question.

I regret what has occurred. I regret the feeling that has been produced, not an unnatural feeling I admit, because there has been bound together with this vote what was completely and entirely distinct from it.

The vote should be considered entirely apart from that point, and the question now is whether the demand is a just one in itself.

I now feel it my duty to put the question, and following the usual course here, I will first put Mr. Ryrie's amendment, which is that the vote be postponed until a despatch has been received from the Secretary of State in reply to the protest of the unofficial members.

Page 359

Edit History

2026-05-26 19:10:05 · NVIDIA / meta/llama-4-maverick-17b-128e-instruct
Live
View comparison
AI Proofread
But the real purport of that despatch was to make a demand for a further contribution on the ground, that circumstances rendered it necessary to increase the garrison here. This is clearly shown in the first paragraph, where your Lordship addresses us on the subject of the additional garrison required by the fortifications recently erected at Hongkong and their armament. Again in paragraph 7 Your Lordship says, "The cost of this garrison (the future garrison) will be about £280,000 a year and will consequently be nearly three times as great as was the expense of the garrison in 1863 when the Colonial contribution was fixed." In paragraph 19 your Lordship remarks "that the £40,000 which the Colony will pay in each of the next three years is only one-seventh of the garrison, while the remaining six-sevenths, £240,000, will still be borne by the mother country." Could anything be plainer, more particularly from this last mentioned paragraph, than that the Imperial Government intimated that they intended during these three years to expend £280,000 per annum on an increased garrison out of which they requested the Colony to contribute £40,000? But now the War Office takes a different line. The letter of the 14th of July insinuates that the increased contribution is not asked for so much because we are to have an increased garrison, but because the Colony's revenue has considerably augmented since the year 1863, and because an intention, then announced, to increase the Military Contribution at the end of five years was never carried out. Those might have been very good reasons for requesting the Colony to increase its contribution, and had they been straightforwardly and undisguisedly submitted to the Legislature I doubt not that the Unofficial Members would have given them that impartial consideration which they are at all times prepared to give to proposals emanating from Her Majesty's Government. But these were not the grounds upon which the Council were asked to vote the additional money. The real reason was, and there can be no attempt to disguise it, that the garrison would be increased during the three years particularly referred to, whereas there seems to be little chance of any substantial increase this year or indeed within any limited period. This despatch has been acknowledged but it has not been answered. The Colonial Office has evidently knuckled under to the War Office and ceased to support our just cause. Lord Knutsford appears to have forgotten and to have abandoned what His Lordship termed our reasonable claim, and requests this Government to vote the increased contribution well knowing that no addition has been made to, and that no increased expenditure has been incurred on, the garrison. Possibly the Government could not carry this vote if all the official members vote in accordance with their convictions on this subject; the officials have, however, been reticent as to what their views are; but whatever their opinions may be they are allowed no choice in the matter and will be required to vote as Government directs them. If the Government press this question and take the extra £20,000 from the colony by means of the more numerous official vote, I think the position of matters may become so serious and so grave as to render it advisable for the unofficial members to take into their serious consideration the utility and propriety of their continued presence here where their votes, their opinions, and their resolutions are so completely disregarded and over-ridden, and to compel them to submit to Her Majesty the Queen by petition a statement of their reasons for contemplating such a course of action. I submit this would be the only effective protest to be made to the arbitrary policy of the Home Government and its decision to impose a fresh burden of £20,000 a year on the ratepayers of the Colony without any quid pro quo and without giving them or their representatives an opportunity of discussing the new position and the new grounds taken up by the Right Honourable the Secretary of State. The proceedings of the Imperial Government on this question are not characterised by reason or equity. I submit they are arbitrary and unjust. In my opinion they are calculated to imperil good government and must tend to weaken and impair the allegiance and alienate the goodwill towards the mother country of one of the most loyal of Her Majesty's Colonies. There is a distinct breach of faith on the part of the War Office, and a glaring violation by the Imperial Government of a solemn agreement of its own framing and deliberately entered into. It might be well for Her Majesty's advisers to bear in mind that, as stated in the Singapore Council the other day, loyalty is a hardy plant that requires a fair field and no favour, and that under injustice loyalty withers. Against such unconstitutional doings and such a serious injustice to the taxpayers of Hongkong as is now contemplated I most earnestly and most emphatically protest. HIS EXCELLENCY—I have listened very carefully to what has been said by hon. members and I venture to think that the point made by Hon. P. Ryrie is the only important one made, namely, that of the question of the stoppage of public works. Of course we do not know what the meaning of the telegram received is, but if that telegram means that this military contribution is really going to prevent us from carrying out much-needed public works without a serious addition to our taxation, I must say that the point is a serious one. But we do not know that at present. It may be that other public works are considered of greater importance than those that we have passed. It may be it is thought well not to proceed until we have taken some financial assistance from a loan such as we were well entitled, according to all ordinary principles, to have raised on the Tytan Water Works and reproductive works of that nature. But of course if it means what Mr. Ryrie imagines then I should say his point has some considerable force. I have also listened with great attention to the heroics indulged in so largely by the hon. member who last spoke, but I am bound to say that I think the whole is beside the point. He says that hon. members have had no opportunity of discussing the intrinsic justice of this vote apart from the promise apparently made and unfulfilled. I say they have had that opportunity. It was a most unfortunate promise to make in the first instance but, as he very justly remarked, the ground has been entirely shifted. The increased contribution is now claimed on the ground that we are only asked to pay what we should pay; the other is entirely left out. I say there has been full opportunity both on this and the last occasion of discussing that point. It has been most distinctly brought before the Council, and to say that there has been no opportunity for discussing it is to say what is not a fact. There has been abundant opportunity for discussing the question entirely apart from the unfortunate despatch which originally recommended this vote, the unfortunate nature of which nobody acknowledges more fully than I do. It is because I consider that the demand is a just one entirely apart from that that I can conscientiously recommend this vote to the Legislature and do recommend it. I could only have wished that members would have touched on the question which was deliberately put forward at the last meeting but which has not been touched upon, namely, supposing the demand had been made, as Mr. Fleming suggests, without the promise of additional troops, would it have been just? If you are prepared to say it would have been just, then the promise however unfortunate has nothing to do with the question. I regret what has occurred. I regret the feeling that has been produced, not an unnatural feeling I admit, because there has been bound together with this vote what was completely and entirely distinct from it. The vote should be considered entirely apart from that point, and the question now is whether the demand is a just one in itself. I now feel it my duty to put the question, and following the usual course here, I will first put Mr. Ryrie's amendment, which is that the vote be postponed until a despatch has been received from the Secretary of State in reply to the protest of the unofficial members. Page 359
Baseline (Original)
But the real purport of that I espaich was to make a demand for a further con- "tribution on the ground, that circumstances ["rendered it necessary to increase the gar- "rison here. This is clearly shown in the first para- "graph, where your Lordshio addresses no "on the subject of the additional garrison "required by the fortifications recently "erocted at Hougkong and their arma- "ment.' "Again in paragraph 7 Your Lordship says, The cost of this garrison is.. the future gar- "rison) will be about 280,00-7. a your and will consequently be nearly three times as great as "was the expense of the garrison in 163 when "the Colonial contribution was fixed.' In paragraph 19 your Lor ship remarks "that the 40,000l. which the Colony will pay in each of the next three years is only one- "seventh of the, garrison, while the remaining six-sevenths, 240,0007, will still be horns by the mother country.' "Could anything be plainer, more particularly "from this last mentioned paragraph, then that the Imperial Government intimated that they "intended during these three years to expend £280,000 per annuo on an increased garrison "out of which they requested the Colony to contribute £40,000 P But now the War Office takes a different "line. The latter of the 14th of Jaly insinuates that the increased contribution is not asked for gu much because we are to have an increased “garrison, but because the Colony's revonue has "considerably augmented sincs the year 1863, and because an intoution, then announced, to increase the Military Contribution at the and of five years was never carried out. Those might have been very good reasons for requesting the olony to increase its contri- bution, and had they been straightforwardly and undisguisedly submitted to the Legislatura "I doubt not that the Unofficial Members would "have given them that impartial consideration which they are at all timos prepared to give to proposals emanating from Her Majesty's Go- vernment. +5 not the grounds upon. But these were which the Council were asked to vote the aditional money. The real reason was, and "there can be no attempt to disguise it, that the "garrison would be increased daring the three years particularly referred to, whereas there seems to be little chance of any substantial in- "orease this year or indeed within any limited perion." This despatch has been acknowledged but it has not been answered. The Colonial Office has avidently kanckied under to the War Office. and ceased to support our just cause. Lord Knutsford appears to have forgotton and fo have abandoned what His Lordship termed our reasonable claim, and requests this Government to vote the increased contribution well knowing that no addition has been made to, and that no inoreased expenditure has been inanered on, the garrison. Possibly the Government could not carry this vote if all the official members vote in accordance with their convictions on this sub- ject; the officials have, however, been reticent as to what their views are; but whatever their opinions may be they are allowed no choice in the matter and will be required to vote a Government directs them. If the Government press this question faud take the extra £20,000 from the colony by means of the more numerous official vote, I think the position of matters may bacomo so serious and grave as to render it advisable for the unofficial members to take into their serious consideration the ntility an propriety of their continued presence hers where their votes, their opinions, and thair resolutionsare so completely disregarded andover-ridden, and to compel them to submit to Her Majesty the Queen by petition a statement of their reasons for con- templating such a course of action. I submit this would be the only effective protest to be nade to the arbitrary policy of the Home Qc- vernment and its decision to impose a fresh bu den of £20,000 a year on the ratepayers of the Colony without any quid pro quo and without giving them or their representatives an oppor tunity of discussing the new position and thes new grounds taken up by the Right Hou. the Secretary of State. The proceedings of the Imperial Government on this question are not characterised by reason or equity. I submit they are arbitrary and anjust. In my opinion they are calculated to imperil good government and must tend to weaken and impair the all-giance and alienate the goodwill towards the mother country of one of the most loyal of Her Ma. jesty's Colonies. There is a distinct breach of faith on the part of the War Office, and a glar- ing viola ion by the Imperial Government of a solemn agreement of its own framing and del- berately entered into. It might be well for Her Majesty's advisers to bear in mind that, as stated in the Singapore Council the other day, loyalty is a hardy plant that requires a tair held and no favour, and that under injustice loyalty withers. Against such unconstitutional doings and such a serious injustice to the taxpayers of Hongkong as is now contemplated I most earnestly and most emphatically protest. Hrs EXCELLENCY-I have listened very carefully to what has been said by hou. meta- bera and I venture to think that the point made by Hon. P. Ryrie is the only important ons made, namely, that of the question of the stop- page of public works. Of course we do not know what the meaning of the telegram received is, but if that telegram means that this military contribution is really going to prevent us from carrying out much-need- ed public works without a serious addition to our taxation. I must say dst the point is a serious one. But we do not know that at pre- sent. It may be that other public works are considered of greater importance than those that we have passed. It may be it is thought well not to proceed until we have taken some finau- cial assistance from a loan such as we were wall entitled. according to all ordinary principles, to kaye raised on the Tytan Water Worka and re- But of course !. productive works of that nature. if it means what Mr. Ryrie imagines then I should say his point has some considerable force. I have also listened with great attention to the heroics indulged in so largely by the hon. mem ber who last spoke, but I soi bound to say that I think the whole is beside the point. He says that hon. members have had no opportunity of discussing the intrinsic justice of this vots apart from the promise apparently made and unful filled. I say they have had that opportunity. It was a most unfortunate promise to make in the first instance but, as he very justly r mark. ed, the ground has been entirely shifted. The increased contribution is now claimed on the ground that we are only asked to pay what wo should pay; the other is entirely left out. I say there has been full opportunity both on this and the last occasion of discussing that point. It has been most distinctly brought before the Council, and to say that there has been no op- portunity for discussing it is to say what is not a fact. There has been abundant opportunity for discussing the question entirely apart from the unfortunate despatch which originally recommended this voto. the unfortunate nature of which nobody acknowledges more fully then I do. It is because I consider that the demand is a just one entirely apart from that that I can conscientiously recommend this vote to the Legislature and do recommend it. I could only have wished that members would have toughed on the question which deliberately put forward at the last meeting but which has not been touched upon, namely, supposing the demand had been made, as Mr. Flem ng suggests, without the promise of additional troops, would it have beou just? If you are prepar d to say it would have been just, then the promise however unfortunate has nothing to do with the question. I regret what has occurred. I regret the feeling that has been produced, not an unnatural feeling I admit, because there has been bound together with this rote what was completely and entirely distinct from it, The vote should be considered entirely apart from that point. and the question now is whether the demand is a just one in itself. now feel it my duty to put the question, and following the usual course here, I will first pat Mr. Ryrie's arend- ment, which is that the vote be postponed until a despatch has been received from the Secretary of Stato in reply to the protest of the unofficial members. 359
2026-05-26 19:10:05 · Baseline
View content

But the real purport of that I espaich was to make a demand for a further con- "tribution on the ground, that circumstances ["rendered it necessary to increase the gar-

"rison here.

This is clearly shown in the first para- "graph, where your Lordshio addresses no "on the subject of the additional garrison "required by the fortifications recently "erocted at Hougkong and their arma-

"ment.'

"Again in paragraph 7 Your Lordship says, The cost of this garrison is.. the future gar- "rison) will be about 280,00-7. a your and will consequently be nearly three times as great as "was the expense of the garrison in 163 when "the Colonial contribution was fixed.'

In paragraph 19 your Lor ship remarks "that the 40,000l. which the Colony will pay in each of the next three years is only one- "seventh of the, garrison, while the remaining six-sevenths, 240,0007, will still be horns by the mother country.'

"Could anything be plainer, more particularly "from this last mentioned paragraph, then that the Imperial Government intimated that they "intended during these three years to expend £280,000 per annuo on an increased garrison "out of which they requested the Colony to

contribute £40,000 P

But now the War Office takes a different "line. The latter of the 14th of Jaly insinuates that the increased contribution is not asked for gu much because we are to have an increased “garrison, but because the Colony's revonue has "considerably augmented sincs the year 1863, and because an intoution, then announced, to increase the Military Contribution at the and of five years was never carried out.

Those might have been very good reasons for requesting the olony to increase its contri- bution, and had they been straightforwardly and undisguisedly submitted to the Legislatura "I doubt not that the Unofficial Members would "have given them that impartial consideration which they are at all timos prepared to give to proposals emanating from Her Majesty's Go- vernment.

+5

not the grounds upon. But these were which the Council were asked to vote the aditional money. The real reason was, and "there can be no attempt to disguise it, that the "garrison would be increased daring the three years particularly referred to, whereas there seems to be little chance of any substantial in- "orease this year or indeed within any limited

perion."

This despatch has been acknowledged but it has not been answered. The Colonial Office has avidently kanckied under to the War Office. and ceased to support our just cause. Lord Knutsford appears to have forgotton and fo have abandoned what His Lordship termed our reasonable claim, and requests this Government to vote the increased contribution well knowing that no addition has been made to, and that no inoreased expenditure has been inanered on, the garrison. Possibly the Government could not carry this vote if all the official members vote in accordance with their convictions on this sub- ject; the officials have, however, been reticent as to what their views are; but whatever their opinions may be they are allowed no choice in the matter and will be required to vote a Government directs them. If the Government press this question faud take the extra £20,000 from the colony by means of the more numerous official vote, I think the position of matters may bacomo so serious and só grave as to render it advisable for the unofficial members to take into their serious consideration the ntility an propriety of their continued presence hers where their votes, their opinions, and thair resolutionsare so completely disregarded andover-ridden, and to compel them to submit to Her Majesty the Queen by petition a statement of their reasons for con- templating such a course of action. I submit this would be the only effective protest to be nade to the arbitrary policy of the Home Qc- vernment and its decision to impose a fresh bu den of £20,000 a year on the ratepayers of the Colony without any quid pro quo and without giving them or their representatives an oppor tunity of discussing the new position and thes new grounds taken up by the Right Hou. the

Secretary of State. The proceedings of the Imperial Government on this question are not characterised by reason or equity. I submit they are arbitrary and anjust. In my opinion they are calculated to imperil good government and must tend to weaken and impair the all-giance and alienate the goodwill towards the mother country of one of the most loyal of Her Ma. jesty's Colonies. There is a distinct breach of faith on the part of the War Office, and a glar- ing viola ion by the Imperial Government of a solemn agreement of its own framing and del- berately entered into. It might be well for Her Majesty's advisers to bear in mind that, as stated in the Singapore Council the other day, loyalty is a hardy plant that requires a tair held and no favour, and that under injustice loyalty withers. Against such unconstitutional doings and such a serious injustice to the taxpayers of Hongkong as is now contemplated I most earnestly and most emphatically protest.

Hrs EXCELLENCY-I have listened very carefully to what has been said by hou. meta- bera and I venture to think that the point made by Hon. P. Ryrie is the only important ons made, namely, that of the question of the stop- page of public works. Of course we do not know what the meaning of the telegram received is, but if that telegram means that this military contribution is really going to prevent us from carrying out much-need- ed public works without a serious addition to our taxation. I must say dst the point is a serious one. But we do not know that at pre- sent. It may be that other public works are considered of greater importance than those that we have passed. It may be it is thought well not to proceed until we have taken some finau- cial assistance from a loan such as we were wall entitled. according to all ordinary principles, to kaye raised on the Tytan Water Worka and re-

But of course

!. productive works of that nature.

if it means what Mr. Ryrie imagines then I should say his point has some considerable force. I have also listened with great attention to the heroics indulged in so largely by the hon. mem ber who last spoke, but I soi bound to say that I think the whole is beside the point. He says that hon. members have had no opportunity of discussing the intrinsic justice of this vots apart from the promise apparently made and unful filled. I say they have had that opportunity. It was a most unfortunate promise to make in the first instance but, as he very justly r mark. ed, the ground has been entirely shifted. The increased contribution is now claimed on the ground that we are only asked to pay what wo should pay; the other is entirely left out. I say there has been full opportunity both on this and the last occasion of discussing that point. It has been most distinctly brought before the Council, and to say that there has been no op- portunity for discussing it is to say what is not a fact. There has been abundant opportunity for discussing the question entirely apart from the unfortunate despatch which originally recommended this voto. the unfortunate nature of which nobody acknowledges more fully then I do. It is because I consider that the demand is a just one entirely apart from that that I can conscientiously recommend this vote to the Legislature and do recommend it. I could only have wished that members would have toughed on the question which deliberately put forward at the last meeting but which has not been touched upon, namely, supposing the demand had been made, as Mr. Flem ng suggests, without the promise of additional troops, would it have beou just? If you are prepar d to say it would have been just, then the promise however unfortunate has nothing to do with the question. I regret what has occurred. I regret the feeling that has been produced, not an unnatural feeling I admit, because there has been bound together with this rote what was completely and entirely distinct from it,

The vote should be considered entirely apart from that point. and the question now is whether the demand is a just one in itself. now feel it my duty to put the question, and following the usual course here, I will first pat Mr. Ryrie's arend- ment, which is that the vote be postponed until

a despatch has been received from the Secretary of Stato in reply to the protest of the unofficial members.

359

Comments

Approved members can add comments, bookmarks, and private notes.

No comments yet.

Private Research Note

Private notes are available after approval.